May 16, 2018
- Clinically speaking, narcissitic personality disorder is
defined as: a sense of grandiosity (put themselves in a god-like
category), sense of entitlement, want to control everything and
everyone around them. Their relationships are short term, like a
roller coaster. The people they keep around them are ones they can
use. They won't be intimate or vulnerable. They lie. They are
obsessed with being brilliant, successful, or beautiful. Will only
associate with people who are the best. Can be a delusional
component; they believe people are jealous of them. They also can
feel an intense amount of jealousy, insecurity, or envy.
- Pop-culture defines a narcissist as: someone who has a lack of
empathy, puts their feelings above everyone else's, they feel very
entitled, and are very manipulative. Gaslighting. The relationship
becomes very parasitic.
Dr. Natalie Jones specialises in counseling women of color
with narcissistic mothers. She identifies what narcissism means,
how to detect if that's what we lived (or live) with, and how to
break the cycle.
Dr. Natalie Jones, PsyD., LPCC is an Licensed professional clinical
counselor and a post doctoral psychologist. She currently has a
private practice called Lifetime Counseling and Consulting in
Oakland, CA where she specializes in working with women who have
been in emotionally and psychologically abusive relationships with
narcissists, as well as with individuals who were previously
incarcerated for various crimes.
Dr. Jones also works for the California Dept of Corrections and
specializes in providing individual/group counseling and
assessments to prison inmates who have committed various offenses,
with a specialization in working with sex offenders.
Dr. Jones also has a podcast called A Date With Darkness Podcast,
which specializes in providing education and tips from healing from
Dr. Jones received her masters in clinical counseling psychology
from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology in Chicago, IL,
and her doctorate in clinical psychology from the California School
of Professional Psychology in San Francisco, CA. Dr. Jones has also
written blogs for the Mind Journal and PsychCentral.
A few things we talked
- Just like animals who have parasites become sickly, so do we
when we have a parasidic narcissist attached to us. There are women
who are in abusive relationships lose part of themselves and may
become physically sick. Go to 30:17-31:01 to listen to this
- People who have been raised by a narcissistist have a greater
liklihood of being in a relationship with a narcissist.
- People who are in a relationship with a narcissist may find
comfort in that relationship because there's comfort in what we
know. They might not want to change.
- If the person is a true narcisstic person, you can limit
contact or make the coversation superficial. Or limiting talking to
once or twice a year at holidays when you can walk away.
- Know that the narcissist will not change unless they want to,
which rarely happens. Do not expect them to change.
- They feel like they don't have the problem. When narcissists go
to treatment, it's usually to prove how you're the problem and
they're so wonderful. You can't typically have a superficial
relationship with a relationship partner. They need everything
focused on them.
- Don't stay in this relationship for your kids. If the person is
treating you like garbage, that's abuse, and your kids are seeing
you be abused. Even if they're "nice" parents, if they treat you
like dirt that isn't good parenting.
- If someone is abusing you, there's a chance they're abusing
your kids and you don't know it.
- You have to do a lot of work just to have a relationship with
the narcissistic person. (Much more than a normal
- You have to mentally prepare yourself to go "into a war-zone"
when you're going to deal with them.
- You feel like you can't have a healthy conversation with the
- You have to hide part of your life from them because they use
information to attack you, use it against you in a moment of
weakness, or they'll try to hold it over you later.
- If you notice those things, ask yourself why. Many people think
they have to respect their parents, but don't know exactly what
their definition of what respect is. Often, the word respect is
- Do they respect you, or hold you emotionally hostage? Do they
try to control you to be a certain way so they can get what they
want, but you don't get what you want from the relationship.
- We feel like we don't know them. We know how they act, or their
behaviors, but we don't know the intimacies and intracasies of
Is it healthy to break
the tie with a narcisstic person?
- "Yes, it might even be necessary or life-saving to break that
You're in a relationship with two people: you're in a relationship
with the actual parent, and they're also in a relationship with the
fantasy or idea of what their parent should be, or what they hope
one day they can be."
- It's important to reconcile reality from fantasy. Chances are
they are not going to change.
More facts about narcissism according to Dr.
- 99.9% of the time, people that were raised by abusive parents,
and have children of their own, have the abuse manifest in some way
with their own children.
- The number one indicator is that typically what happens when
moms lash out with their own children, is that they have guilt.
"I'm acting like the person I never wanted to be." Pay attention to
guilt. If you notice it coming up, go to a therapist, or to the
bookstore and get a book about this.
- If the people who know and care about you notice a problem with
your own parenting, listen. Don't be defensive.
- Biggest telltale sign is your kids. If you're manifesting
behaviors towards, your kids, there will be a reminder of the past.
They might feel like they can't come to you or talk to you. They
might even be afraid or intimitated by you.
BOOKS to help you learn more:
- "Narcisstic Families, Assessment and Treatment"
- "Narcisstic Mothers"
- Dr. Susan Forward, "Toxic Families"
- Anything by H.G. Tudor - books and videos on YouTube
- Kim Saeed has videos on YouTube about narcissism
- Anything by Lundy Vancroft
- Anything by Susan Anderson
Dr. Natalie Jones' advice to women whose parent is a
narcissistic: Find a surrogate parent, or parent-like
figure who can fulfill healthier roles for you. The idea of what
you thought your parent some day could be.
Dr. Natalie Jones' advice to a mom in a relationship with a
narcissist: Think about what this means for you and what
you want to do about it. Do you want it to stop, or do you want to
just have an awareness of what's happening? Research on the
internet and bounce ideas off friends. If you're questioning some
things, write them down, and think about it more. Get a therapist
you can talk to regularly who specializes in working with these
kinds of situations. Be safe. You might not want your partner to
see what you're reading, or your notes so they can't access it. Be
selective about who you share information with so they don't share
the information with the narcisstic person.
Dr. Natilie Jones' Superpower: She is a human lie
detector. She can tell if someone is lying or conning within
If you need help in the
U.S. - The Domestic Violence Hotline in the U.S. is:
If you are needing help with
rent, utilites, and more, you can call the United Way at
You can find Dr. Natalie
Facebook 2: https://www.facebook.com/adatewithdarkness/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/196036654267594/
Twitter 2: https://twitter.com/ADateWDarkness
Thank you for joining us today!
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Thank you Dr. Jones for joining me this week!
Our music is "A New Day," by Scott Holmes
This episode is sponsored by the book, "The Sick Mom's Guide to
Having Fun Again: If I can do it, you can too!" available on
Amazon, and all major online booksellers.